Okay, I'm working on the NEW categories for 2009 and I have come up with "Tribal Fusion Solo" and "Tribal Fusion Ensemble". Kinda boring titles, but I didn't want anyone to be guessing what they were.
Does Tribal Fusion cover enough ground for Fusion dancers? I was originally going to make it just Fusion, but that seemed to lack direction. Comments ... ideas .... talk to me.
Does Tribal Fusion cover enough ground for Fusion dancers? I was originally going to make it just Fusion, but that seemed to lack direction. Comments ... ideas .... talk to me.
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Las Vegas
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I think Tribal Fusion covers a broad range. Tribal base fused with whatever. I think it's good to call it Tribal Fusion as opposed to just fusion so that we know you want some tribal in there. If it were just fusion it may be caberet fused with hip hop or something like that. Whereas Tribal Fusion tells us you want some tribal with elements of another style too.
Now Tribal Fusion is a pretty big category too. Were you thinking of maybe having another category for Gothic? Tribal (in and of itself like ATS)? Folkloric? Tribaret (Tribal fused with cabaret)? As well as Tribal Fusion?
I'm so excited for the new categories!!!!! And for WOW next year! -
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Unless we get much bigger, as an event, this is all the categories we have room for. So I guess, we will leave it broad for now and tweak it if need be. ATS, Folkloric, definately Tribaret, and even some Gothic has already been used in the established categories of Entertainer, Headliner, and Ensemble. Remember we are the Contest where Unmata won Ensemble, Kami Liddle won Entertainer, and Siham used 50% Folkloric Jug Dance in her final Entertainer piece and won! Just to name a few. So keeping things broad has worked for us, so far.
Now having said this the Cabaret side may protest and want their own fusion category in the future, you just never know. -
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I think it will actually be a big event. Esp since you are joining forces with the LV Intensive which is growing by leaps and bounds.
For me as a potential competitor, if the category is too broad like Entertainer of the year or headliner of the year, I probably wouldn't compete. As a tribal dancer I would be looking for a category that is particular to my genre with judges that I felt would understand how to judge the genre. If it is not a well defined category that I think I could represent well in, I'd pass on competing. So personally I like the idea of well defined genre specific categories. I would feel uncomfortable, as a tribal dancer, competing against caberet dancers bc I would have no real idea of how the category would be judged. I don't know that I'd want to break out the gothic for a broad category either. If you have more specific categories you may actually find a larger market bc gothic dancers would probably be more likely to compete in a gothic category than a Tribal Fusion or even an Entertainer of the year category. You may find some won't be put off by it, but I think you may have more participants with well defined categories and a variety of categories. Just my 2 cents. -
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Thanks for your valued imput. It is definately something to think about. I guess I will just have to go with what I have and tweak it as we go. In 12 years of Wiggles of the West, it has never remained carved in stone -- it is always changing.
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I understand your perspective, but there is limited time & space. So it would be near impossible to narrow it down to such specific genres as gothic. If you narrow things down too much, you end up having lots of categories with only a small number of entries. The Ballroom world has that issue (IMHO). How is it much of a competition if there are only a handful of other competitors.
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Depends on how broad you want the category to be. Do you have other categories that would encompass the other styles/genres that Raven mentioned?
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Okay now you are freaking me out. Is there a category for amatures?...lol. Competing against the likes of UnMATA and Kami makes me a bit nervous.
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The category for amatures, as long as they have not earned money dancing solo, is Rising Star. Alternative Wiggles, the category for those using music other than Middle Eastern, is for everyone amature and pro. Alternative is the lighter side -- fun wise.
We try to keep things rather general so we get a lot of entries. But still try to cover the bases for what is going on in Belly Dance today. Hense the Tribal Fusion categories, because Tribal Fusion in all its forms is so wildly popular now.
I hope this helps and hasn't muddied the stream. -
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Now is Rising Star a Middle Eastern music only Category?
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Okay so I guess Alternative it is...dang I have to compete against professionals. Oh well it will help me improve my skills...lol.
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You can do it Shalini!! Your ideas are so fresh, you might just blow the judges away. But remember technique counts too and the Judges look for that.
I will have sample score sheets up on the web site, as soon as my son can get the web site transfered. My son will be my server ... so nice to have a Geeky son. But he is trying to squeeze me in between wife & 3 kids and a fulltime job.
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Have you considered limiting professional entries to only the Entertainer category? Or to Entertainer & Alternative? Just curious. My experience with competition is very different as it has always been in the ballroom world. And in that genre, the professionals can only compete in the professional categories: Rising Star (aka new professionals with less than 2 years in the business ), Open Professional (any professional), Pro/Am (professional coupled with an amateur but being judged together).
They obviously have much stricter guidelines in terms of what a professional is as well. And Amatuers cannot win money (or they aren't amatuers any more, eh?). They win prizes and scholarships for more dance lessons.
Just curious as to what your perspective is on this. -
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WOW (no pun intended) what a difference between the two dance genres. That would not work in Belly Dance, because there just aren't that many of us. I don't think we would get enough entries to pay the bills. So practically speaking, we won't be doing anything close to that for a while.
If more time becomes available for more categories in the future, one category I would like to add would be Hobbist. It would be for people like me who have danced more than 4 years (way more in my case), but have not advertised myself or earned money as a professional.
But those are the dreams of the future. -
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i'll have to agree with raven.. when i did alternative catergory i thought that my piece would fit and it totally didnt.... infact i remember the judges didnt like my music, my costume, or think that i fit in the catergory..... i remember thinking wow.. i dont think the judges knew what i was going for.... kinda disappointed as well but oh well... i figured i'd give it another try later on... im DEFINATLY competing in 09 if i can. but so far the changes sound good!
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Re: My 2 cents
04/28I remember your WOW performance...unfortunately I am only a lowly assitant, not a judge, because I thought it rocked! I got it, even if the judges didn't.
XOXO for Nisha! -
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Re: My 2 cents
04/28awww thanks katrina!!!! thats sweet of you... i was still new to competing so it was a GREAT learning experience!!! just cause i like something doesnt mean everyone else will... it's all good im a better dancer now because of it.. not that i thought i would win but i thought i might have a fighting chance.... Shalini this is why i offered to help you!!!! i know what to expect from the competition being i have competed 3 times now. *twice with tabu one solo* no worries shalini!!! im sure you'll be awesome... :) wow was one of the BEST experiences of my life... wouldnt change a thing about my experience there! -
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Re: My 2 cents
04/28I still want your help. We just have to narrow down a ongoing date.
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Dang Nisha it was like that? Okay great now I will just have to wait on the rules before I completely commit to my idea. Janie Janie Janie, I really don't know how you do it.
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Shalini, I think it's great to look forward to competing, however you are right to want to see how the categories pan out. I was shocked to hear that Nisha's routine didn't go over well in an "Alternative" category. However what you and I think of as "alternative" may be completely different than what the judges think of as "alternative". This is where it can bet a bit complicated to lump tribal and caberet in the same category - in my opinion. I'm waiting to see what the definitions of each category is before I make my decision on whether to compete or not, too. Either way, whether we compete or not, I think it will be a great addition to our community and I look forward to seeing it.
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raven i totally agree with what you've had to say about it... either way this will be a great addition to the community!! if anything there is always the networking with other dancers!!! im sure janie will be needing lots of volunteers to help wiggles go off with out a hitch!!!! :))) when i signed up for alternative i thought there would be lots of tribal fusion dancers but that wasnt the case... there were cabaret dancers doing "mainstream" music with cute costume*dont get me wrong they were awesome ideas* so i guess i was out of place cause i was really*if my memory serves me right* the only tribal fusion dancer in that catergory.... :) either way it was a learning experience.. i wasnt the only tribal fusion dancer there though. there were some in other categories. if i remember right... :)
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I think that it is definitely important to have an understanding of what the definition of the category is for any competition one chooses to enter.
"Alternative" as a style of music and/or lifestyle is not the same as the genre at WOW. My understanding of that category...and I could be wrong...is that it is about blending belly dance with non-bellydance themes. It's more like the Las Vegas Improv contest than it is about one particular style of bellydance. Nisha's piece may have been non-traditional in the sense that it was Tribal Fusion...but it was NOT truly "Alternative" in the way that the category demanded. There were dancers in tutus belly dancing to Swan Lake and others in cowboy hats belly dancing to country western. When you put it in that perspective...you can see that Nisha was not thinking far enough out of the box to be in that category. It wasn't an issue of comparing tribal to cabaret. A cabaret piece would not have fit into that category either.
I would also argue that the Entertainer of the Year follows the same logic. It isn't about the style of dance that is presented...but about the overall concept of being an entertainer. It isn't judging on the artist as a cabaret-dancer or as a tribal-dancer or as a (insert whatever here)-dancer. The judges would look at the overall performance. Did the dancer have all of the elements to be a fabulous entertainer? Technique (for the respective style), Emotion (whatever it may be), Musicality & Costuming (were they choose music & costuming that accurately protrayed what they were trying to achieve), etc. etc. In this way I think it is entirely possible to compare/contrast/judge cabaret & tribal in the same category. And, truth be told, there have been tribal dancers who won that category...even though it is usually filled with mostly cabaret professionals/semi-pros. Kami Liddle was one of them.
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You're hired Samira! I think you just described it better than I could.
Alternative music, simply means using no traditional belly dance music for your dance. And because Chris and I love themes we ask that your costuming also go with the chosen music. So a dancer in a white tutu dancing to swan lake on pointe and doing hip drops works. A dancer in a banana skirt dancing to 1920's music doing a tribute to Josaphine Baker works. The gal dancing to hippy music in full on bedlah didn't work.
Nisha, you are right a couple of judges didn't understand at all. Remember we talked about it and one of the judges said she didn't know who Fosse even was. Now a dancer the next year took your Fosse idea and jazzed it up used music from Chicago and won. She basically took the Robin Williams scene from Birdcage and danced to all the different people mentioned.
I'm revising all the category descriptions now, so they will be ready for the new and improved web site. It should be ready soon ... fingers crossed. -
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I remember reading the comments about your music and not all were favorable. Again, I liked it. That's all that matters, right?
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To clarify, I don't let everyone read your scoresheets. Those are protected. But Minya was a scorekeeper (she judged some categories and did score keeping for others). Scorekeepers naturally can read comments while they are adding up the scores. They are specially chosen for their dexterity with a 10 key, as well as their ability to keep a secret. At the end the Scorekeepers, Chris , and I are the only ones who know who has won, until it is announced.
Maybe I need applications for Scorekeepers too. I have one lined up, so far. -
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Ah yes, should have mentioned that I wasn't just sitting in the corner with everyone's scoresheets giggling maniacally. I just remember the comment about the music because I didn't agree. I'll shut up now. Oh wait, I don't know how to shut up.
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Agreed Samira. That is why I think it's so important to have well defined details in the category. Faizeh did this with Hips of Fury. It was great bc we knew what each category called for in style and in dance. If it's more about emotion or invoking a theme, then yes alternative can mean so many different things. Sometimes our personal interpretation is not what the judges were thinking of - and this can happen in so many genres. Also different events define things differently. So I suppose my whole point is that it would be great to have a well defined category before the competition so that dancers can make an informed decision, esp if words like "alternative" can invoke so many different definitions.
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Precisely. It seems that most of the contests out there do seem to focus on style as the defining characteristic. I don't get the impression that the WOW categories are about style per se. So adding Tribal Fusion as a category is a different approach, to be sure.
My understanding of Hips of Fury is that it was a Tribal Contest. Which is great. It's their niche. They embrace Tribal through and through. Every event & contest will have their own philosophy and perspective. I think it's safe to say that both the WOW & the Intensive have always been about embracing the spectrum in the bellydance community...so the categories are going to reflect that persective. The emphasis being less on the style, but more on the elements of what makes a good performance.
Waltz is Waltz, and Salsa is Salsa. They are very different animals and beasts. But both require technique, stamina, passion, musicality, etc. There are nuances between the styles that are very different, but a judge can still say X couple had strong technique and Y couple did not....regardless of what style they are dancing.
I'm not really arguing here. Mostly just elaborating on my thoughts. I know Janie & Chris put a lot of time and effort into their categories. And truthfully, I think they've really done a fine job in terms of running a contest. Every description is subject to interpretation. Every judge is going to have their own perspective and flavor that they bring to the table. All of it is going to have elements of subjectivity.
As a contestant, one needs to have a very clear vision of what one wants to convey. If the judges don't like it...it may be because the message was conveyed in a way that the judges didn't understand. This is a problem in the real world as a professional dancer. An artist may be great, but if the point is missed by the audience, then where does the responsibility lie? With the artist (because they need to communicate more clearly) ? Or with the audience (because they need to be more educated)?
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